7 Answers to Google Panda Questions with Terry Van Horne – SES Toronto
As part of SES Toronto 2011, I’m doing a series of interviews with some of the expert panelists to get some insider advice to help improve your SEO efforts.
Up first is Terry Van Horne. Terry is currently a partner with David Harry in Reliable SEO, a Search and Social Media Marketing Agency, and the award winning SEO Training Dojo, a learning community as well as three other marketing and industry news sites
He’s going to be talking at SES Toronto about a timely topic: the Google Panda Update
Here are my questions for Terry and his answers.
1) What are the main differences between the first and the second Panda update? The second was supposed to be the international rollout but a lot of US traffic fell for many sites as well.
One of the problems with Panda is that there were a number of changes over a very short period of time. The attribution and scraper update was released just before Panda. In fact this year has absolutely been the most volatile I have seen in my 15 years of doing SEO.
Part of the reason some may feel that they were adversely affected is that there is a suspicion in the SEO Dojo that Panda was accompanied by another unnamed update or other algo. Also consider that if you had links from properties affected by the second wave then your rankings would be affected a second time.
IMO, some of the shifts in rank are due to sites affected by panda passing less authority/link equity hence if you had a lot of incoming links from affected properties you are going to see hits to authority.
2) How much of the second update was related to Google user feedback in your opinion?
Zich… nada… more about them all being separate indexes. Google doesn’t really give SEO’s much more than lip service. Matt Cutts has stated quite emphatically that some sites are affected that shouldn’t be. These are being manually changed, but I doubt beyond “hand jobbing” the real collateral damage not much attention was paid to the complaints.
Much of what was affected was genuine low quality content with very low quality foundational linking and no “real” web promotion. IMO, this content is produced solely for Search Engines with little value elsewhere! However, I wouldn’t go as far as to call it spam. It’s what Google was giving up easily and an SEO should use as part of a diversified techniques approach.
Matt has been quite emphatic in that there is no getting up from Panda. Which IMO, means in the end it will be like the directories that were hit after the Florida update. Almost all of these have never regained the PR or value they had before the update. This has all the same kinds of “telltale” signs as that update. More interesting is that some directories (Buzzle) were also hit hard by Panda.
3) Recommendations that have been given for website owners hit by Panda have been: get rid of duplicate content, noindex low value content like tags pages, and remove / reduce the # of display ads. Would you agree with this advice?
Some yes, others no! I agree on reducing ads if you have more than 5 ad blocks on the page. I don’t believe that display ads or otherwise matter but the “number of” ad blocks is what I would pay heed to since Google AdSense uses a max of 3 ad blocks/page. However, they do allow some site ads beyond that.
One rule I use beyond Panda is ratio of copy/text to Link Text. I also look at the ratio minus the “most likely to be segmented” elements (mast, footer and left/right margins). It has always been a good idea to manage indexing of contact, privacy policy, TOS and disclaimers. You could see that some of the sites affected in the first list that appeared after the update definitely had high ratio of Link text to copy.
BTW not a big fan of the HTTP Index tags as effective ways to manage indexing, especially, when there is a multi-author blog/site scenario.
I also believe that by reviewing the flow of link equity from Home page to subsequent pages is a very good indication that Google doesn’t really see those pages as important. Of course I first check to be sure there isn’t another reason for the low flow of link equity. When you see the “juice” leave… can be pretty sure Google has lost that “luvin” feeling.
You need to either figure out why and chances are it isn’t as simple as adding more comments or pictures or videos. IMO, adding comments, vids and pics to posts is a short term fix. Kind of like the old “putting lipstick on a pig” scenario. It’s still a pig!
4) Is there any other advice you can give to entrepreneurs who have been hit by Panda?
Look at the patterns in your promotion and realistically assess your content for the role you want to play in the SERP it’s targeted at! eHow is the perfect site for some queries! Lastly, and most important is to keep your techniques and “audience types” diversified and varied!
Many SEO’s and businesses get enamored with one technique and audience and beat it to death. That results in a bad link profile with obvious signs of manipulation. Like your traffic sources try not to have one audience type or SEO technique driving all your business! The degree to which techniques “work” will fluctuate and audiences sometimes just go away.
5) Are there any examples you can think of (perhaps from your clients?) where they have successfully recovered from the Panda update? What did they do?
No examples we didn’t get hit! I think most of what got hit always have been lame tactics that worked, to some extent, but don’t drive sales or much traffic. Sorry, but I quit the article marketing in 98 and still see it as, at best, foundational links, but, even then it would be something I’d suggest as an almost last resort to get traction in a competitive SERP.
Often you end up getting outranked by your own article by some lame site that is scrapped and has a ton of crappy links pointed at it. There are lots of ways to get foundational links without going the offshore route churning out low quality content never intending it to be read just indexed and links attributed.
6) What do you think Google’s next big update is going to focus on?
Too far off to know exactly. I don’t think we’ll see another like this in years, but, it almost always is dampening links of some sort since that is the easiest way to manipulate the more competitive terms.
7) For SES Toronto, what are some high level points you’re going to be discussing in your session on the Panda-pocalypse Survival Guide For Canadian SMBs: A Search Engine Watch Round Table Special?
The signs that tell you a technique is susceptible to Panda and other calamitous events. The only one that has ever impacted me negatively is the introduction of Local Paks in the Universal SERP. Most of what I read closely will provide info that helps me to Future Proof my SEO. I am not an exploiter of the algorithm but rather I’m more interested in what it gives naturally as the Search Engines intended. Likely over 80% of all link building techniques fall directly in the not used as intended category so I tend to shy away from traditional link building and go more for the audience seeking links found more in the social web and relationship marketing.
8) For SES Toronto, what session are you most interested in attending and why?
OMI Workshop: Social Integration: Creating Interactive Conversations Across Channels
Clearly one of the future hurdles for Online marketing will be bridging the gaps between the Social Web and Search. IMO, determining where search is entering your conversion funnels with the highest chances of conversion will change how and why keyword research is being done and content created.
Is there anything else you would like to learn from Terry? Was your website impacted by the Panda update? Are you planning on going to SES Toronto 2011?
I’d love to hear your thoughts if you leave a comment below!
7 Answers to Google Panda Questions with Terry Van Horne – SES Toronto:
As part of SES Toronto 2011, I’m doing … http://bit.ly/kEKz62
I did this Q&A for my SES Toronto session enjoy… 7 Answers to Google Panda Questions with @TerryVanHorne – SES Toronto http://rt2.ca/5j
7 Answers to Google Panda Questions with Terry Van Horne – SES Toronto http://tiny.ly/khaE
7 Answers to Google Panda Questions with Terry Van Horne – SES Toronto http://tiny.ly/yAdb
7 Answers to Google Panda Questions with Terry Van Horne – SES Toronto http://tiny.ly/TjG9
7 Answers to Google Panda Questions with Terry Van Horne – SES Toronto http://tiny.ly/KZHw
7 Answers to Google Panda Questions with Terry Van Horne – SES Toronto http://tiny.ly/Uld6
RT @ECBranding: 7 Answers to Google Panda Questions with Terry Van Horne – SES Toronto http://tiny.ly/Uld6
I did this Q&A for my SES Toronto session enjoy… 7 Answers to Google Panda Questions with @TerryVanHorne – SES Toronto http://rt2.ca/5j
7 Answers to Google Panda Questions with Terry Van Horne – SES Toronto http://tiny.ly/Ztgl
7 Answers to Google Panda Questions with Terry Van Horne – SES Toronto http://tiny.ly/BzxU
7 Answers to Google Panda Questions with Terry Van Horne – SES Toronto http://tiny.ly/Fa37
7 Answers to Google Panda Questions with Terry Van Horne – SES Toronto http://tiny.ly/O0Nj
7 Answers to Google Panda Questions with Terry Van Horne – SES Toronto http://tiny.ly/3SlL
7 Answers to Google Panda Questions with Terry Van Horne – SES Toronto http://ow.ly/1cIEnk
RT @MadScientist777 : 7 Answers to Google Panda Questions with Terry Van Horne – SES Toronto http://tiny.ly/k05y http://bit.ly/mt27BS -Yes!
7 Answers to Google Panda Questions with Terry Van Horne – SES Toronto http://tiny.ly/Ertx
7 Answers to Google Panda Questions with Terry Van Horne – SES Toronto http://tiny.ly/6ZCQ
My friend’s website has been affected by this Google Update. Google’s Panda has trampled his two years hard work of building his site. Now we’re left wondering what to do now. We are making a lot of changes to the site, but nobody really knows why some sites have been downgraded and others not. Well, thanks for this interview.
Good luck Mike – I haven’t seen too many cases of entrepreneurs getting out from under the Panda update. If you have any luck, let us know!
Answers to Google Panda http://bit.ly/lrIBhI @terryvanhorne #search #seo
Answers to Google Panda http://bit.ly/lrIBhI @terryvanhorne #search #seo
7 Answers to Google Panda Questions with SEO expert @TerryVanHorne → http://bit.ly/mgqzyB via @EvanCarmichael
That is a nice interview! The Google panda update has been a hot topic for a while. I feel a little improvement recently. My site’s traffic is going up but not so significant. Maybe panda is not always detrimental. I hope the new algorithm favors my site! :)
I’m glad you enjoyed Karen – thanks for commenting!
You said, “Matt has been quite emphatic in that there is no getting up from Panda” and I’ve seen you say it before. I asked a while back about this, but never got an answer from you, so I’ll ask again. Where does Matt say or even imply that? Please show this specifically because I’ve never seen any reference he’s made to back that up. Thanks.
RT @terryvanhorne: RT @EvanCarmichael: 7 Answers to Google Panda Questions with @terryvanhorne ahead of @SESConf Toronto http://rt2.ca/5j
@ErenMckay: RE: …. Panda Questions with SEO expert @TerryVanHorne → http://bit.ly/mgqzyB via @EvanCarmichael~ I'm an Expert? Tnx!
Hi Donna! Sorry if you asked ealier and I didn’t respond… below is from SEO Roundtable. Personally that post kind of verified what I had been thinking.
“Only two publishers that I know of claimed they are back after being hit by Google’s update. One is Cult Of Mac and the other is Digital Inspiration. Google’s Matt Cutts specifically said Cult Of Mac was not impacted by the Farmer / Panda update because if they were, they would still not be ranking. So whatever hit Cult Of Mac, it was not this update and they are back in Google for other reasons.”
Emphasis is mine.
From SeoRoundtable
http://www.seroundtable.com/google-panda-rescue-13140.html
I was reveiewing directories for SeoPros list after Florida when a large number of directories were hit by a similar algo change. So many of the affected directories I had reviewed just previous to the algo change. Personally I think it is manual and meant to stop whatever behaviour they deem was too easy to manipulate. When I look at the sites and link profiles of affected sites it’s pretty apparent that it would be simple to isolate the sites for a filter or “manual” adjustment. One thing Dave and I have been trying to come to terms with is the possibility there was another change that is camouflaged by the Panda factors.
Hi Donna,
Matt didn`t officially blog about it – but he let out little indirect nuggets about it here and there. (You know the kind where you can read between the lines). I found one reference for you of the Twitter conversation between Matt Cutts and Tom Critchlow.
Here`s the link to that conversation:
http://twitter.theinfo.org/66679295564722177
Hope that helps.
All the best,
Eren
Thanks, I’ve seen both of those, and neither imply to me that there is no getting up from Panda. Both, to me, refer to only running the algo periodically, so getting up requires patience.
As a new content site owner, I think this panda update, in some respect, a lesson in getting the basics right and creating unique content. Good recommendations on the interview! Thanks for posting this.
I exerted huge amount of effort to be patient from Panda. It’s kind of disturbing actually. Thank you so much for the interview Evan!
I have to admit that Google Panda helps businesses rank their website to a great extent. The thing is, most of the entrepreneurs such as myself are quite unhappy with the new algorithms. It even raises more questions that that of answers. Sad but true.
In my point of view, the best thing that we could do is to focus on our content creation. I know that Panda had affected businesses’ revenue, those that are of quality business websites in particular. We must not deny ourselves from other sources of traffic, because if we continue in fervently hoping for Panda, we’ll just end up being frustrated.
We have to definitely acquire this opportunity, If the content farms are getting kicked off the SERPs, then the content producers get a much higher ranking. We must be anxious with the content that we publish. In order for us to stay on top, therefore it must be unique, succint and most of all, helpful to people.
Google Panda has changed for the better so as they say to improve the overall quality of research. For many, it has wreaked havoc. Truly one must agree with the recommendations that was aforementioned and embrace the change.
We ought to be in control of the zero-sum game. In order for us to do that, I have to agree that we really have to keep the “audiences” different. Very ingenious advice.
Well Evan, I have to say that you did it again! You never fail to surprise me with your posts. Fantastic interview with Terry. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks Jacob – I’m glad you enjoyed!
I have to say yes that we have to be “realistic” and know where we want to stand. Thus creating methods is definitely substantial to be ranked higher. Thanks Evan for this interview, i totally appreciate it.
That was a great interview Evan. Well done as always. I am looking forward to more of your upcoming interviews!
Truly something to ponder on. Even Ezine articles were affected from what I’ve learned. It’s like Google Panda is just mitigating ‘low quality’ content.
I have another set of posts to look forward to then! I am hooked up in reading all of your posts. I find it very pragmatic since I’m an entrepreneur as well.
Google has created this domain-blocking feature which is quite annoying to those who were affected by it. You gave me all the reason again to continue being one of your avid fan. Information at it’s finest.
I guess I have to do a lot of reading tonight! I finally had the concise idea of this topic. It’s really worthwhile spending time at your website.
I feel sorry for the Cult of Mac, but I have to agree that it can’t be the update that affected their site. Well that’s just my viewpoint of things. Thanks Evan for this enlightening post and interview.
Does Google Panda infiltrate the websites which is suspected to have “low quality content? I mean, I still can’t figure out why the Cult of Mac was affected. Is this for real?
We can’t risk of making a “cover-up” for low quality content and that is a fact. I knew that it will only take time for Panda to do such thing. Best advise is to follow your lead Evan as I always do:)
I’m just curious as to when your next interview will be Evan? Who’s that expert panelist? I am so excited to see who’s next and what’s in store for us!
I was just discussing this matter with one of my business partners the other day and I’m just glad that it eventually came up and now is posted in your site as an interview. What intrigues me really is the Cult of Mac. Very interesting indeed how they were affected by Panda.
This issue seems to never end. Either way, I am so interested in related articles and posts with regard to this topic. It keeps me updated. Thanks Evan!
Google had some apparently unintended casualties. I strongly think that although it is unfair to be falsely caught, they need to have the perception of maintaining their ranking by keeping their patterns unique. This is another helpful article. Thanks to you Evan.
There are many setbacks with Panda’s “new layer” to help assess which among the sites are ought to be considered as having low quality content. Sad fact that everyone has to keep up with. The challenge now is to be more appealing to the masses.
Another wonderful post thanks to you Evan. I never get tired of reading each and every of your posts because it contains a no non-sense advise and tips to almost everything with regard to all the entrepreneurs out there. Keep up the good work, I’m with you all the way!
Another great and very informative post! There are lots of unanswered questions regarding the Google Panda update. this interview answered some of the questions I have in mind. Good job Evan!
Great interview! This interview explained what we would have expected of the Google Panda update. It’s nice to get some advice from SEO experts! Thanks Evan!
Complains are all over the place after Google Panda update took place. It’s good to know more information about it. Thanks for this interview!
Great interview Evan! I have a few question about this Google Panda update and some of my questions have been answered by this interview. Also need the advice to adjust on that update. Thanks for this!
I was asking why does US traffic fell for many sites if this Google Panda is supposed to be international. Thanks for the answers and the recommendations. Such a helpful interview! Keep them coming!
Interviews like this are very informative and helpful especially for SEO. This Google Panda update had greatly affected websites’ traffic. Thanks for this interview!
The photo above makes me want to watch Kung Fu Panda 2 and just forget about Google Panda update. Great interview though! :)
That’s an insightful interview. I know a lot of people who had been hit by this google panda update and some of them hasn’t recover yet. I’ll be glad to share this with them. Thanks!
The answers to the interview are notable. Great job on this interview Evan. Looking forward to more of your interview posts!
That’s a great interview! Very informative. There were mixed reactions about this Google Panda update and people who have been affected are still recovering. Will gladly share this post!
Hi Evan! Great work on this one. I’ve been following your blog for a while now and I must say every posts are helpful and I can really feel how dedicated you are in helping people to improve! Keep it up!
I liked the photo above! Just watched the movie. But I don’t like the Google panda update. It affected my blog. Hopefully I can recover soon. Thanks for this interview!
[...] month I interviewed Terry Van Horne (7 Answers to Google Panda Questions with Terry Van Horne – SES Toronto) and today I’m pleased to connect with Matt McGowan. Matt joined Incisive Media in 2006 and [...]
This update has terrorized a lot of sites that deserved but it also put a lot of hurt on innocent webmasters that are making a living online.
Thanks Mike – did it impact your site?
To put the fate of ones ranking in the hands of a new computer algorithm is scary. Panda did a lot of good out there on the web, but now I personally feel like Google should focus on really pinpointing their systems to only attacking spam sites. There are plenty of sites out there with content, etc that may not be the coolest or up to date but that does not make them “bad”.